15 May Interview with Simon Harris, Minister for Further & Higher Education, Research, Innovation & Science, Ireland
Prisma Reports: I’m very much looking forward to our discussion today, to hear about your vision as Minister, the highlights of the latest Strategy 2021-2023 and hear about all the exciting projects being launched to foster a vibrant innovation ecosystem in Ireland.
INTRO – Ireland’s higher education system has built a solid international reputation and attracted scholars from around the world. I’d like to begin our interview today by asking about your vision for developing in Ireland the best education system in Europe and creating a high-calibre and well-funded research and scientific innovation system. What are some of the key elements behind this vision?
Simon Harris: The first this to say is that for the first time in the history of our country, we now have dedicated government department for further and higher education, research, innovation and science. That is very much a statement of intent from Government, and more broadly from civic society about the focus and priority we want to put in these areas. Up until issues of further and higher education were dealt with by the Department of Education, issues in research, innovation and science were scattered across a number of departments. What we have now done, for the first time, is bring all those elements together into a department that we see as department for the future. It has a very long name, possibly the longest name in government: the Department of Further & Higher Education, Research, Innovation & Science. I summarise it as a department for the future. It’s a department about making sure that Ireland both economically and societally is ready for the challenges of the future.
We have some very exciting plans. Number one on our agenda this time has been dealing with the COVID pandemic, trying to get our students through the education system, keeping the show on the road in that regard, but it has also been a chance in Ireland to really showcase the researchers and the scientists. There is a once in a generation opportunity to excite broader society about science and innovation. We intend to kick off a roadshow shortly, so we can have a national conversation on research and science, why it is so important and why we need to continue to invest in it.
We are also looking at trying to create a truly integrated third level education system, recognising that we need to provide multiple pathways for people to get to where they want to get to in life. The education system needs to be flexible and adaptive. The apprentice model is an area we really want to put a focus on because we hear from people and businesses, big and small, that different people need to learn in different ways and lifelong learning is important. Not everybody will be able to leave the workforce and head to university for four years. We have just launched a very ambitious Apprenticeship Action Plan that is going to double the number of registered apprentices in Ireland between now and 2025. It has been broadly welcomed by business, trade unions and students.
We are also launching a new Adult Literacy and Digital Skills Strategy. If the pandemic has shown us anything it is that we are so reliant on digital skills. We were before COVID, but that has been accelerated. Later this month we are launching a new Digital Skills Strategy to really make sure that everyone in Ireland has digital literacy as well.
The last point I would highlight is that we are investing in what we call the Technological University agenda. We are developing a number of Technological Universities in the regions to make sure that people in the regions, and not just the big cities in Ireland, have access to education in their locality. Also, that the business community and those that wish to invest in Ireland know they can invest in that region and have an education partner in terms of a pipeline of graduates with suitable qualifications. It’s a really exciting time. You referenced the changes that are inevitable in terms of the global tax environment, and Ireland stands ready to play its part in those discussions. From my perspective, is that it tells me that the focus on talent, ingenuity, research, innovation, the creativity of our people is going to become more and more important. We would argue, and passionately believe, that Ireland is well placed in that regard, based on our track record and our education system and also that bridge we can provide between the US and the EU. We are the only English speaking country in the European Union now.
Prisma Reports: EDUCATION – Under your leadership, the government recently launched the Higher Education Authority Act 2021, which aims to reform governance and increase transparency and greater accountability in Irish universities. The education sector has always been a sector of importance for the growth of Ireland’s economy – with healthy tech and life sciences sectors to show for it. What major changes does this new bill introduce, and what ramifications will it have for universities and their students?
Simon Harris: The first thing to say is that universities are independent and autonomous, and academic freedom is a cornerstone of our education system and of our democracy. That remains protected and academic independence and freedom will be enshrined in law. At the same time, we have to make sure that internal governance is really robust. Our education system is really important already to our country and to our people. It’s going to become even more so. At a time where the taxpayer is going to be investing even more across the world, people are going to be asking about Ireland’s higher education system as they make investment decisions. It is important, that I, as minister, can proudly point to governing authorities that have the right competencies, skill sets and appointments. It is modernising and replacing a law that is basically 50 years old. 50 years ago, in 1971, there were 20,000 students in higher education, now there are 200,000. The sheer scale and volume of students accessing higher education is a superb success story. It does necessitate a need for governance to change as well.
We are investing more in higher education than ever before, so we have to make sure we have governance structures that fully respect that independence but are also robust. That is the aim of the new law. It will do a little bit more than that. We have a body called the Higher Education Authority, that on my behalf funds and regulates the sector. It will also empower it to set codes around things like gender equality. It’s very important that our education system continues to look like the population and be diverse. In the last couple of months, we have seen a number of females appointed as presidents of Irish universities, we hadn’t had any before then, quite amazing! We have seen that glass ceiling shatter with our oldest institution, Trinity College, Dublin, electing the first female Provost ever. It is important from a policy point of view that things like equality and inclusion, that frameworks and guidance are set.
Prisma Reports: This year you also launched the Apprenticeship Action Plan with the aim of increasing apprenticeship to 10,000 a year in 2025 to aid both students and employers. Why is this new Plan so significant for Ireland and how is it different than other models in professional training that exist in Europe?
Simon Harris: In many ways it is learning from some of our European colleagues who have led the way. Germany is a country that has done a lot of good work on apprenticeships. We’ve seen a big increase in apprenticeships over the last number of years. The plan is trying to do five things. The first is trying to significantly increase, in fact double, the number of apprentices that register every year.
The second is trying to broaden the range of apprenticeships. Traditionally in Ireland people have seen apprenticeships as crafts and trades and they’re so very important, but you can now do your PHD through an apprenticeship, you can do your Master’s through an apprenticeship. I see it as broadening the range of programs that people can flexibly learn from. That should excite everybody, because it means that people can access the education system who might not be able to if they had to stop work and go to university.
The other aspect it is trying to do is increase diversity. Funding for female apprenticeships, female bursaries, bursaries for people with a disability, people that haven’t participated traditionally much in apprenticeships. It is getting the public sector involved, setting targets for the public sector so that every Government Department, every County Council, every State Agency will be expected to take on apprentices as well.
The fifth aspect is providing support for business. There can’t be apprenticeships without businesses willing to take on apprentices. We will be providing a core grant of around 3,000 euro every year per apprentice to every business who takes one on. That is a whistle stop tour of the five elements to the plan. We’ll be setting up a new National Apprenticeship Office to promote apprenticeships. We will also be changing things when our students leave school, making apprenticeships an option alongside university.
Prisma Reports: You recently pledged to have students back in the classroom by September. The pandemic has sparked a huge revolution in the way education is run with hybrid methods and adaptive learning. How have these last 14 months influenced your views about future learning methods and what are the key topics today that the strategic agencies that form part of your Ministry and the universities themselves are bringing to the table when discussing the future of learning?
Simon Harris: There is two parts to that. We need to get our students back to campus because college isn’t about a Zoom camera. It’s about development, debating ideas, discussion or a robust debate over a cup of coffee; it’s about social development and well-being. You can do a lot over Zoom, but particularly for school leavers it is an important milestone, so I am committing to get them back to campus in September and we have some really good plans in that regard. We will be publishing them in June. Basically, it is a combination of rapid testing, our vaccination program and investment in our college campuses to make them safe. .
The second point is an interesting one. There are more people accessing higher education today in Ireland, that wouldn’t have been able to had it not been provided in a more flexible way; blended learning. I am not talking about the school leavers that want to go to college, I want them back on campus. I am talking about, for example, a man or woman in their 50’s, maybe living many miles or hours away from university, being able to access university education in the evening, after doing their day job, from the comfort of their home or a community hub. They tell me, when I meet them virtually, that they wouldn’t have otherwise been able to do it. It will revolutionise access to education. If we use it correctly it can be a method for inclusion.
It is not either or, the students who are 18/19 and want their college life, we need to get them back. The students who are lifelong learners, returning to education, they don’t want a fresher’s week, they want access to education in a way that works for them. We are already with our stakeholders and agencies to identify what good has come from COVID and what’s bad that we never want to see again. We’ve been sitting down with stakeholders to make sure we move from emergency provision of what’s good to a planned arrangement.
Prisma Reports: SCIENCE – Science and Innovation are earmarked as key contributors to the future economic growth and development of Ireland, and your Ministry is tasked with prioritizing these investments. These include: a €193 million investment in new five SFI research centres, and €23 million to spur developments from post-doc researchers. What are some of the other priority areas your Ministry will be investing in to ensure a healthy and vibrant innovation ecosystem in Ireland – across all segments – including universities and the private sector?
Simon Harris: We’re very proud of how well Ireland is doing. When I look at the innovation index from 2020, Ireland came 15th out of 131 countries. We are proud, that for a small, open economy with a population of around 5 million, we are doing well in terms of this space. Being honest, we could be doing better, which is why my department has been established.
We want to invest more from a public funding point of view. We want to get up to at least the European average for research. I am working with our Prime Minister and others to agree how we close that funding gap over the next couple of years. I expect to have positive news on that in the coming months. Returning to the point you made about how we link in our universities and so much of our research happens in our universities, we are now about to develop Ireland’s new national research strategy. For the first time we are able to pull together all of the strands because of the new department. It will be what do our agencies do? What can higher education do? What can business do? We will be developing in the course of 2021 Ireland’s new national research policy.
The first thing we are trying to do is join the dots between a problem with society or the economy, nationally or globally, and the ability of research to come up with a solution. We’ve launched a number of initiatives in recent weeks and months around grand challenge funding, where we provided specific funds, be it for the green economy, health…. and invited our best and our brightest to come forward and pitch for that funding. You are going to see more and more, particularly in the climate space, investing in research, in science and trying to embed that expert in terms of policy making. One of the things the world has learned with COVID 19 is the importance of expert advice. How when you listen to expert advice things go well and when politicians dismiss expert advice, as we sadly saw in some countries, how badly things can go. We are working on a new strategy, how you embed research in decision making. We are working on the green economy in a challenge fund around big societal issues. We are also working on Horizon Europe, which is the largest European fund for research ever. Ireland managed to draw down over €1bn euro in funding for Horizon 2020, and we want to do even better in this one. I am reminded of President Biden’s comments saying, “Don’t tell me what your value is, show me your budgets and I’ll tell you what you value”, I think there’s truth in that. We need to fund more in terms of public research.
Prisma Reports: The current spend on R&D in Ireland is on the rise – particularly in the private sector. Digital technologies are causing a huge revamp of all sectors, and Ireland is benefiting from its position as an EU tech hub. A recent study ranked Ireland as sixth in Europe in terms of integrating digital technologies, and the fastest growing in this index. What do you think needs to be done to boost total R&D spend to reach the levels of the EU leaders – Sweden, Austria and Germany – over 3% GDP?
Simon Harris: Firstly, we the government need to increase public investment. We are going to do that. To get to those levels of those leading from a funding point of view in research, we need to fund more in the space. That is going to become more and more essential, and countries that grasp this and do well, realise it’s not a cost if you are investing in your future economy, society and well-being. That’s very much our intention- to increase public funding.
The second is to look at how we can help business leverage more. My colleague, the deputy Prime Minister,has, for example, unveiled a disruptive technology fund, where we are pumping millions and millions into industry to innovate and to do more to help co-fund some of those projects. They are the two main pillars, but this can’t be a way of government just lecturing industry. We have to accept, and we do accept, particularly post-pandemic as we build back, the need to do much more in terms of our funding levels. Over the last 10 months or so, since my department has been founded, we have shown intent and willingness to do that with a number of significant funding initiatives.
Prisma Reports: BREXIT – The UK’s break from the EU has caused significant waves before and after the leave at the beginning of this year – specifically on its closest trading partner. While many sectors face a challenging transition, others – like Higher Education – are seeing an opportunity. What impact has Brexit had on Ireland’s higher education and scientific communities, and how has Ireland leveraged the break to foster closer ties with its neighbour?
Simon Harris: The first thing to say is that Brexit is a tragedy, because we are always stronger together when we try to address major challenges. If last year has shown anything, it is the importance of multi-nationalism in addressing issues. I am so encouraged by the new administration’s commitment to multi-nationalism. We have seen as a small country the huge benefits of European membership. We are a passionate community of Europeans. I am proud of our membership of the European Union. It is the first time in history we have been in the European Union without our closest neighbours. Indeed, we share on this island a border with now another jurisdiction, Northern Ireland, which isn’t in the European Union. It has caused massive challenges.
The downsides far outweigh the upsides to Brexit. We are clear on that. We didn’t want Brexit to happen and don’t want Brexit. Brexit is not a good news story for anybody. There is an onus on Ireland to do two things: one, our relationship to Britain will remain close and we want to do more with Britain. As Minister for Science, I am encouraged by the fact they have decided to remain within Horizon Europe. They’ve kept the linkages in place to continue to work together at a European level in Science. We have very deep and long funding partnerships, we want to develop all-island research centres, between Northern Ireland and the Republic. We will not let Brexit stand in the way of doing more together in this space.
The second aspect is there is now an onus on Ireland, because we remain in the European Union, to further strengthen our links with other partners as well. I had a very good meeting with the Director of the National Science Foundation in the United States, with our chief scientific adviser. We already have a number of programs and joint partnerships with the US in the research and science space. We have a President in The White House who believes in science again and we are very eager to do more on that front. Similarly, we will be looking at how we ‘beef up’, for want of a better phrase, our presence within European institutions because we want to draw down more from Horizon Europe, and we also want to play a big role in terms of research and science in the European Union. I will be looking how we can physically locate officials abroad, post-pandemic, in key markets, be that the west, in the United States, Brussels, the OECD in Paris. It’s not either-or, our relationship with Britain is deep, they are our closest neighbours, and we want to do more with them and at the same time we want to strengthen links elsewhere. We have, interestingly, seen an increase in the number of international students coming to study in Ireland, I suppose because of being the only English-speaking country in the European Union.
Prisma Reports: Ireland-US relations are at an all-time high after continued growth in the last two decades. Ireland is now America’s ninth largest trading partner – no small feat for a nation of only 5 million. American companies account for 20% of employment in Ireland, with collective US investments of $444 billion. How have recent changes in legislation affected Irish-US ties, and what implications do they have on co-operation in research and education?
Simon Harris: I would leave it to my colleague the Minister of Finance to lead for us on the global tax situation because he is the President of the Euro group. It is a statement of fact though to say that change is coming. There is significant engagement globally in that regard, be that OECD or comments from President Biden. From my experience as Minister of Research, Science and Innovation is that the connections and ties between US and Irish business and society run very deep. US companies know Ireland and they can come to Ireland and operate in a pre-business stable economy. They can operate in a country that values research and science. That relationship is no longer a one-way relationship, for this very small country compared to the mass of the United States there is now a flow of jobs and investment in both directions. From my perspective, the onus is on showcasing Ireland as a location for investment. It is going to become even more important that we do that on the basis of ingenuity, talent and investment in our people. That is why working with the National Science Foundation, our own IDA, we are making sure that we are talking across the world, and including the United States, to highlight our commitment to providing a business, an opportunity to be able to come to a country that is a gateway to Europe, English speaking, in the Eurozone and has a highly educated workforce and an education system that is willing to work with industry about the future skills needs for their sector of the economy. Change will come and change will happen. The way the world will respond to change and the countries that will do well in that world are the countries that realise the best asset is their people, and investing in their people and their education is key.
Prisma Reports: Final message to the readers of Foreign Policy magazine?
Simon Harris: It is so important that we, and I, as an Irish Minister, say to the world, that we are a country that values multi-nationalism. There is no country on the earth that is big enough to solve a problem on its own, and there is no problem on the earth that is too big to be solved when the world comes together. We saw that through the COVID pandemic. We will need to now see it when it comes to areas like climate action. Ireland has a proud tradition of being open and engaging, we want to continue that. We don’t want to go ‘normal’ post-pandemic, we want to play our part in how we build back better, in terms of addressing so many of the challenges we face. Key to that is investment in research, innovation, science and creating robust flexible education systems, recognising we all learn in different ways.
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